This transcript has been lightly updated for clarity.
Heidi Franz Host 00:00
Talk to any elementary school teacher and they will agree that the best thing you can do with your toddler or preschooler to prepare them for school is to read to them and then read some more. But what does reading to your child really look like and how do you pull the most learning from reading time? That is exactly what we’re going to cover in today’s Parenting to Impress podcast time.
Welcome back to Parenting to Impress – your go-to podcast to learn practical ways to love God and love others and impress this on the hearts of your children. I am your host, Heidi Franz, and I am joined by my dear friend, Melanie Simpson. Two moms who have made a lot of mistakes but have found grace and truth along the way.
Melanie Simpson Co-host 00:46
Heidi, this is one of my favorite types of podcasts because I get to sit back and ask questions and learn from your wisdom. Today is a topic that’s near and dear to my heart, which is reading to your kids. Our family enjoyed reading out loud reading one-on-one enjoyed reading out loud reading one-on-one. I love that you have embraced and encouraged families and schools to start early, but it can be intimidating.
Heidi Franz Host 01:13
It can be because if you’ve gone to the library – which I know you have as that’s your favorite thing when we are on conference trips. When you see a library, your whole body just gets excited. You love libraries. But I remember taking my kids to the public library and we would bring home typically about 20 books. 10 of them we wouldn’t even finish reading. Five of them we’d think were okay and the other five we would enjoy and read. There were a lot of really bad books out there, Melanie.
Melanie Simpson Co-host 01:51
Unfortunately, there doesn’t seem to be any sort of system for sorting books. And with self-publishing now, I think it’s even worse. I love that on the ParentingtoImpress.com blog and on ABCJesusLovesMe, you have given a way to determine what makes a quality book. So let’s peel back the curtain and get inside the brain of Heidi Franz and tell us what are some of the things that we should be looking for when we head into that children’s section of the library.
Heidi Franz Host 02:22
When you’re looking for a book, you want it to be engaging for the reader. That difference between a book you don’t even finish because there’s nothing engaging, you don’t want to turn the page because you could care less. I think of it like those B movies you start watching them and you’re unable to finish and a week later you don’t even remember that you watched them because there’s no plot line to them. First, the book engages the reader. Second, the characters are relatable. You can tie to your life and have a connection. Now there are books that I read that are about different cultures, people of different ages, but there’s still something relatable. It ties to me in some way. Third, the plot is developed. Now, when you think of that, Mel, what comes to mind?
Melanie Simpson Co-host 03:23
I think of that arc. You have characters that are introduced. There’s some sort of conflict and then you have a conflict resolution. And when I say conflict, I don’t mean like a battle necessarily, although those can be fun too.
Heidi Franz Host 03:36
Yeah, there’s a clear beginning, middle and end. And again, I’m going to go back to that movie analogy because I think we can all relate to it. There are some very popular movies that you watch where you are excited for the first hour and then the last 10 minutes you kind of wonder, “Did they run out of money?” Because all of a sudden, the movie’s over.
It’s the same way with books. We want a book to have a very clear beginning, here’s our middle, and then everything is wrapped up in a timely manner. It makes sense. It’s not just this hurried thing of suddenly we’ve run out of time, run out of pages.
Melanie Simpson Co-host 04:21
Right. Along those same lines, there is something about how the reader engages with the text. That it’s a pleasure to read the story.
Heidi Franz Host 04:30
Yes. Fourth, there’s a flow to the story. The flow and rhythm of the reading. When you read a book and you kind of fumble on your words and you have to go back and read it again, that’s typically an issue of flow. The words just aren’t working together. It should be easy to read at this age. There should be a rhythm – Da-da, da-da, da-da. The cat went up the hill. You want that rhythm to be heard by those kiddos, because that’s the fluency in reading that they’re going to emulate.
Melanie Simpson Co-host 05:15
Now we’re talking about reading a book out loud to a child. You would not hand a six-year-old a novel because of large vocabulary. The sentence structure is slightly different than it is for a pre-reader. That rhythm is so pleasant and it makes us want to stay engaged with the text. What’s next?
Heidi Franz Host 05:39
Number five, we want a book that creates emotions and illustrations that are going to teach those emotions, or what I call pragmatics. That is where you can look at the illustrations and know how those characters are feeling. This dance between the words and the illustrations, so that when the character is sad, we want to see the illustration of the character being sad.
Melanie Simpson Co-host 06:13
You often in your conferences use the Mr Putter and Tabby books because they are such great demonstrations of really good illustrations of a facial expression. I love how you walk your conference attendees through – look at the eyebrows, look at the face. The illustrations are equally as important to words. Okay, and that goes into the next one, which is “Make sure that the illustrations further the story.” What does that mean?
Heidi Franz Host 06:46
Number six means that the illustrations are adding additional understanding to that story. It’s like the story is in the pictures and the story is also in the text. They’re working together, in this beautiful dance of expanding what the child is hearing and seeing to create the big picture.
Melanie Simpson Co-host 07:14
And why is that so important, especially with early readers and the non-readers, where you’re still reading out loud.
Heidi Franz Host 07:20
For one thing it’s important because we don’t just text on our phones, we also have one-on-one conversations. We need to have one-on-one conversations. The most important conversation should happen one-on-one because when you’re talking, the conversation isn’t just the words, it’s watching the person’s eyes, watching their gestures with their hands. Are they leaning on one hip? Are they standing with their hands on their waist? What are they doing that’s supporting their words? There is the saying that Little Man and I used to say. We would talk about how words have power and how you say them with your tone matters. The phrase we used was “Thanks a lot.” You could say “Thanks a lot” in appreciation or you could say “Thanks a lot” with attitude. We don’t know when we read what the character trying to say. But when I look at that illustration and when I take the context of the story into play, then I can understand what those words mean.
Melanie Simpson Co-host 08:37
That’s great. That is so helpful as we are engaging. We’ve got our kids in our lap or they’re sitting on the couch next to us and we get to be participants too.
Heidi Franz Host 08:46
So when the character is surprised, have them make that surprise face. When the character is mad, you can do the same thing in the Bible. It’s to pull them in and make them part of those stories. The last one on my list, number seven is that a quality book builds children’s vocabulary.
In books for read alouds I and the research suggests reading two reading levels above the child. So let’s say the child is reading on a first grade reading level, you would read a book that is on a third grade reading level because you’re always advancing them in their vocabulary. If you have a three-year-old then you’re going to be reading on that kindergarten or first grade level, always two years above. And if you’re thinking, “I’m not really sure what books I should be reading.” As it says on ABCJesusLovesMe.com, “I have done the research for you.” You can find links in the show notes to a plethora of quality books. Whether you’re looking at just the best-of-the-best books for kids, or if you’re looking for books on specific topics, like teaching honesty or obedience or patience, there are lists on the ABCJesusLovesMe.com website. I’ve taken the time to make sure that these seven qualities are included in every book listed..
Melanie Simpson Co-host 10:26
Awesome. Thank you for that. Like you said, walking into a library or even a bookstore can feel very daunting. There are so many choices. Okay, so let’s say that we have taken your list, we printed it off, we went to the library, we chose some books. What do you suggest be our first step? Plunk down and start reading or is there something we should do beforehand?
Heidi Franz Host 10:46
If you have a young child who doesn’t have a large spoken vocabulary, I encourage you to read through the book. But – and this is the caveat – spend a lot of time looking at the illustrations. Let the child lead your reading time. Take their little hand and point to the pictures and talk about what is in the illustrations. Go very slowly through the text, don’t be in a hurry to read those words. Oh, if I could go back and do it all over again, Melanie, how I would slow down and enjoy those times.
As your child grows and builds that vocabulary and you’re having more conversations, I encourage you to do something called picture walk. Picture walk is where you walk through the pictures. You haven’t read the text yet. You’re just talking about what’s on the cover, what is the title, who is the author, who is the illustrator, and then you’re talking about what do you think this book’s going to be about? Just based upon the cover.
A quality book like we are referring to is going to have quality illustrations. The illustrations will tell a story on their own. Then turn the page asking what you think will happen next? Why do you think the person feels this way? In picture walking, you’re telling the story with pictures. And it’s okay if it’s not correct. When you go back and read the book, if you find out that it was not what you thought, that’s okay. That’s some of the fun of being able to picture walk and grow with that reader.
I had the privilege of watching some kiddos for a family, and the three-year-old took a book that she had never looked at before. She created her own story for me. Melanie, it was amazing. Her mama has done a beautiful job with her. She created this story, adding in all these details in her mind. She was reading it to me and that’s what we want these kiddos to be able to do. Look at these pictures, create a story, create characters. This causes their vocabulary and imaginations to expand. After picture walking transition into actually reading the printed story.
Melanie Simpson Co-host 13:31
So do we just read the book once, and then put the book away?
Heidi Franz Host 13:39
No, no, no, no, no. How many times did you read that one book to your child? Each one of your kids had different books that you read 400, 500 times and I’m not exaggerating on that. You read them over and over and over and for an adult there was always that temptation to hide the books. You’re like, “I do not want to read this book again, so I’m going to hide it and hopefully my child will forget about the book.” But that’s the adult view on it.
For the child, reading the book over and over and over again is learning. Children learn through repetition. I say this all the time. Children learn through repetition. Children learn through repetition when we’re reading that book over and over to them. One time they pay attention to the illustrations. The next time they pay attention to the words, the next time they’re starting to put a correlation together, and each time they’re just adding this beautiful layer to this book.
When you’re reading that book over and over again with them, start involving them. Have them fill in rhyming words. For example with the book, Five Little Monkeys Jumping on the Bed. The text says, “Mama called the doctor and the doctor said no more monkeys jumping on the ____.” Pause and let your kiddos fill in the rhyming words. Then, if there’s a repeated phrase, let them say that repeated phrase. Involve them in the story telling.
And as far as the picture walking, there is a video on the ABCJesusLovesMe website that takes you through this process providing visuals. We’ll be sure to post that in the show notes as well embed it on the blog post so that you can watch.
Melanie Simpson Co-host 15:47
Awesome. I love, Heidi, too, how you encourage parents and teachers to talk about physical book itself. This is the cover, this is the beginning, this is a table of contents. It’s not sitting the child on your lap, telling them to be quiet, and read. Thanks for encouraging parents and teachers to involve the child. So I have a question, as I’m sure other parents, teachers do. What do you do with the wiggle worm, with the kiddo who doesn’t seem to be able to sit still?
Heidi Franz Host 16:27
You know it’s so interesting when I’m around kiddos that I don’t know very well. They sit in my lap and we start reading a book with them and you can tell very quickly even in kiddos as young as six months old, those who have been read to and those who have not been read to. I am a firm believer that kiddos need to sit while you are reading a book to them for an age-appropriate amount of time. Yes they need to sit. I’m not a fan of kids walking around while you’re reading to them. That sitting, learning to sit, is a very important part of their growing process, of maturity. When they learn to sit for a book, they can learn to sit on the floor for reading time at the library. They can learn to sit at Sunday school and at church, and it expands from there. They’re learning self-control, which is one of the Fruit of the Spirit. So if you have a child who will not sit for a book, what I encourage you to do is start with a very short book and hold them in your lap. If they start to squirm, say, “No, we’re going to finish our book and then you can get down.” Then finish that book. You might have to start with a very, very short book, but you want to be successful. As soon as the book is done, they can get down and play. Then gradually increase that reading time.
Now you can also have kiddos who don’t want to sit because you’re not making reading time fun. If you’re making it drudgery for them, they’re not going to want to do it. So you need to decide, if this a heart issue, where my kid doesn’t want to do what I’m asking them to do. He’s not wanting to have self-control and sit. Or is this a maturity issue, where I’m asking them to sit too long or I am not even involving them in this book? The book is too difficult for them. It’s not a quality book. We have to step back and figure out what the child’s role is, what is my role in this? And then how do I slowly change?
Melanie Simpson Co-host 18:47
Thank you for that clarification, because I think we often want to put the cart before the horse when training a child.
Heidi Franz Host 18:54
Melanie, I have four children, one girl, and three boys. One boy in particular was very busy, with extreme ADHD, he didn’t sit well. But that child could sit for a long time and read. Don’t just pass off that, “Well, my child’s busy or my child doesn’t want to sit.” I firmly believe that with training, all children can learn to sit for books because it’s fun, it’s entertaining. And I would also ask the question if your child won’t sit for a book, do they sit for TV? If they can sit for TV, they can sit for a book.
Melanie Simpson Co-host
In the nursery on Sunday mornings, we have little fabric books. Holding a baby in my lap, pointing to things the different butterflies. Tying it back to a podcast we did about children’s Bibles, reading should be engaging and sometimes exciting. I mean there are some very exciting stories in the Bible. A good reminder that we have been given such a small amount of time with these babies. It does go by, as you and I know, so fast, so fast, as your man child helped us get equipment set up just for this podcast!
Heidi Franz Host 20:15
Yes, he did.
Melanie Simpson Co-host 20:16
Yes, what a gift to be able to share a love of reading, a joy of reading that transcends board books, that expands our children’s minds to really dig into the Lord’s word as well.
Heidi Franz Host 20:29
Oh, absolutely. Everything we do in this ministry is to point a child to a relationship with Christ. We are reading with them with the goal, with the hope, that eventually they will be reading the Word and digging into what the message is. Discovering where they apply it personally. Asking what they need to do according to what they are reading? So, everything goes back to the scripture.
Reading it also about spending time with the child. Reading is where you are sitting with the child holding a book. They’re in your lap, they’re beside you. If you’re a teacher, they’re in front of you. This is connection time. Reading is not watching a YouTube video. Yes, you can find books on YouTube and, yes, it will save you a lot of money, though some of them are illegal because they’re breaking copyright, but that’s another story in itself. The point of the matter is this is about holding a book. You cannot get the same learning from watching a video. A video of a book is the same thing as a movie. I just want to make sure that that is understood. It’s not holding it. It’s not slowing down and looking into those pictures, letting the child have process time. Remember to not immediately flip through the pages. You’re waiting for that child as they process. They’re making connections of what they’re seeing.
Melanie Simpson Co-host 22:11
Just thinking about the physicality that’s involved in reading. Those fine motor skills of pinching a page to turn it and carrying the book. We do everything with the end in mind. The end here is that we have someone who has a rich vocabulary, a strong ability to read, so that they have God’s Word in front of them and they can read it on their own.
What else do you want to make sure parents, teachers, grandparents know about how we choose quality books and how we can build this habit of reading in our homes and in our schools?
Heidi Franz Host 22:58
Most professionals say that a child should be read to at least 15 minutes a day. That can sound like a lot of time, but some of our best reading happened right before nap time, right before bedtime. When I had some kids in elementary school and some kids weren’t, we’d read while waiting in the car line. Read at the doctor’s office. There are so many opportunities to read if we slow down and grasp the opportunities. I think that’s the same way in everything in life.
You know we can feel like, “Oh, I just have so much to do, I just can’t get it all in.” And the one thing about reading is it covers so many learning objectives. You can do math and counting items. You can do colors, shapes, do letters. You can do emotions of pragmatics. You can talk about comprehension, where you’re talking about the beginning, the middle and end. In that you’re also separating what isn’t necessary, what is core to the story and what is just adding to that story. These are life skills. So, if you let everything else go and only do grace and truth discipline and read to your child, you are setting them up for great success.
Melanie Simpson Co-host 24:27
Awesome, Heidi. Thank you for taking the time to walk us through this. If you have any questions, as always, you can find Heidi on the ABCJesusLovesMe.com website and you can click the Live Chat button. Also, please know that she has already answered so many of these questions on the website. If you just use that search bar and type in what you’re looking for. There are so many things that she has already taken the time to flesh out for you. And then, of course, the Parenting to Impress blog. Awesome. Do you want to pray for us?
Heidi Franz Host 25:01
Dear God, I just thank you for the opportunity to share something that Melanie and I both love, that we enjoyed so much with our children. God, we also understand how fast the time goes. God, I just pray for these mamas and dads, grandparents, and teachers, who are listening, that they would be able to just grab one thing, one idea and start implementing it. God, we thank you that you provide books for children, that you provide quality books for children, and I thank you that this is all in the purpose of raising Godly children. God, that we would point them to the truth of your word, that they would learn to see it as their foundation, their hope, their truth. In Jesus’ name, amen, amen.
Announcer 26:02
We want to thank you for listening to the Parenting to Impress podcast. Be sure to visit ABCJesusLovesMe.com and check out the show notes for more information on topics shared in this episode. Please subscribe and share with your friends.
Read the corresponding blog post – Making Reading Count