This transcript has been lightly edited for clarity.
How to Raise Courageous Kids
Heidi Franz, Host: 00:00
We recently received two letters from moms with a common thread.
Melanie Shuster, Co-Host: 00:04
Yes. The first one, the mom shared that her daughters struggle to speak to people they don’t know. From ordering food or asking for help or just getting simple instructions, it can make them feel really uncomfortable. And she mentioned something that many of us have probably thought: “I wish I had practiced those skills when they were younger.”
Heidi Franz, Host: 00:26
Yeah. The second letter was from a mom who asked for books or advice on raising a confident child. Her six-year-old struggles to do the right things when peers are pressuring them. Both of these questions come down to the same thing. We want to raise children who are courageous leaders. That kind of courage doesn’t suddenly appear in middle school. This courage starts in early years. How do we raise courageous kids?
Announcer: 00:56
Welcome back to Parenting to Impress, your go-to podcast to learn practical ways to love God and love others. And impress this on the hearts of your children. I am your host, Heidi Franz, and I am joined by my dear friend Melanie Shuster, two moms who have made a lot of mistakes but have found grace and truth along the way.
Teaching Kids to Talk to Strangers (Safely)
Heidi Franz, Host: 01:17
You know, I think some of this issue, Melanie, comes from the idea that we don’t want kids to talk to strangers. We don’t want kids to get hurt. And because of that, we do it for them. We keep them safe. But yet in the long run, is that best for them?
Melanie Shuster, Co-Host: 01:40
Right. And again, we’re not saying that you should tell your kids to go talk to strangers. I mean, let’s use common sense here, because there is a time and a place for training your kid who is the appropriate person to talk to. But yeah, I think we need to be thoughtful, but not fearful.
Heidi Franz, Host: 01:58
Yes. Oh, perfect, perfect way to say it. Because in reality, children will need to talk to unfamiliar people. It’s just part of life. Whether it’s at school or at church or at Walmart or at a restaurant, we have to, on a daily basis, talk to people we don’t know and we are unfamiliar with. So instead of teaching our kids never to talk to strangers, we can teach kids how to wisely and competently talk to strangers, which Mel, I think is what builds courage and then eventually leadership.
Melanie Shuster, Co-Host: 02:41
Absolutely. Yeah. I think you were right to put these things together. Until we can build that courageous character trait in our kids, they will not be able to step into and become a leader.
Heidi Franz, Host: 02:54
Yeah. And I think this leadership and courage building begins when they’re young because children are naturally curious. They’re willing to try, but when the adult speaks for them all the time, they miss out on those opportunities to practice. So yes, we want to be an example, but we also want to give them opportunity to try things. So what are some things that you allowed your kids to try, to build that courage that leads to leadership?
Building Confidence Through Everyday Life Skills
Melanie Shuster, Co-Host: 03:32
Right. The first one that comes to mind is we would be out at Chick-fil-A. And back in the day, you used to be able to trade your toy, your book, for an ice cream cone. And so we would walk back up, and I had one child that flat out refused to do it. He was like, “I’ll take the book.” But the other three would march up there, and I would stand with them, and I would tell them what to say. And it took plenty of opportunities to do this before they were confident enough to go up by themselves, or the oldest sibling would lead them all up. And more importantly, it took a lot of opportunities for them to do it in a way that they spoke clearly and loudly enough. They said “thank you” and “please” and all the things. And so you heard me say twice: plenty of opportunities. So I’m not saying you have to go out to eat every day, but you know, be mindful, keep your eyes open for those opportunities. And there are others. For example, I think we talked about when you’re at the library or the store. But what might that look like?
Practical Ways to Teach Kids Communication Skills
Heidi Franz, Host: 04:32
Yeah. When a child is into a certain topic… so maybe that child really likes music or dinosaurs or science… for the child to have the willingness, the courage to go up to the librarian and say, “I am looking for books on this topic. Would you please help me?” And as you were talking there, Mel, it reminded me of how we teach kids to pray. We model it and we give them words. So I don’t just send the child to the librarian and say, “Well, go ask the librarian.” We begin by going up with the child and saying, “I want you to say, ‘Will you please help me?'” And then have the child repeat it. “I am looking for books about…” And the child repeats, “I am looking for books about,” and then explaining it. But as much as possible, and good librarians know this, they will immediately start engaging with that child and talking with them. And then for you to have the wisdom to back away and let that librarian and that child talk through it and not take over the conversation. Yes, there will be misunderstandings, but as much as possible, I tried to let the child and the other adult figure out the misunderstanding and only come in when I felt like it was going on a wrong path or we were headed in…
Melanie Shuster, Co-Host: 06:07
a geniune miscommunication, where you’re like, “Okay, let’s get this back on track.”
Heidi Franz, Host: 06:09
Exactly.
Melanie Shuster, Co-Host: 06:10
And I would even take it back, like in the car on the way to the place. You know, be like, “Hey, you know what? I want to remind you, when we get there, it’s gonna be your turn to practice talking to Miss Susan at the library. And you get to ask her, where is a book about dinosaurs?” or whatever.
Heidi Franz, Host: 06:29
And role play it, in the car. So I’m gonna pretend to be the librarian, have the child pretend to be themselves asking a question, you role play back and forth. One thing that I would also encourage, like in the library situation, is when they walk up to the librarian and say, “May I ask a question?” So making sure that that person that they’re wanting to talk to isn’t in the middle of something. And man, that’s a life skill.
Melanie Shuster, Co-Host: 06:52
And I don’t know about you, but at home, we played restaurant and kitchen and stuff, all the time. And that was a great opportunity to practice. “Can I take your order? What do you want?” And telling the “server” what they wanted to eat. And so I think, you know, there are so many opportunities to practice this… to train at home and then soft launch those skills out in the wild, so to speak.
How to Teach Kids to Speak Clearly & Politely
Heidi Franz, Host: 07:14
So a few things that I would encourage for the practicing at home is training the child to look the other person in the eyes. You need the eye contact. That shows respect, that shows that you’re listening, that active listening part. Making sure that your volume is good, especially when your kids are talking to older people, and not mumbling. Oh my goodness, my kids went through a mumbling stage. But making sure you pronunciate your words so that people understand. I do not want to be my child’s translator. And actually, I would say that when I move into that role of translation, I am not putting the life skills that they need on them. I’m taking responsibility for a responsibility that’s not mine. And then also using polite words so the “May I please? Thank you. I appreciate it.” Showing the gratitude for that person’s help and assistance. Those small moments are what build the confidence.
Parenting Shy Kids: Finding the Balance Between Comfort and Growth
Melanie Shuster, Co-Host: 08:25
I want to be the devil’s advocate here because I was this child. I was painfully shy. When I say painful, I mean it hurt me to talk to people. And we can look back now, and there are lots of stories about Melanie’s inability to articulate things to servers and wait staff. I mean, I was embarrassed. It was super uncomfortable for me. And so I think that practicing these things from an early age is one way to mitigate that discomfort. And I also think, you know your child best. And so there’s kind of that fine line between giving that child a soft push to try something even though you’re uncomfortable, and also just not making them do it at all. You gotta find a balance somewhere in there.
Heidi Franz, Host: 09:12
Yeah, there’s two ditches. My four kids have no problems standing in front of other people and giving a speech or leading a conversation. And that is because at the age of five, every single one of them in 4-H, gave speeches. So from an early age, they had the opportunity to practice, to be encouraged, in a safe space. We have to get out of the one ditch or the other. We need to understand our child’s personality, but we also need to give them that little nudge, like you were talking about, and not use their personality as an excuse. And Mel, I’m gonna say there have been times in my life where I’ve used my child’s personality as a pat on my back to feel like, “Well, they need me.”
Melanie Shuster, Co-Host: 10:10
So let’s start with the basics.
Teaching Kids How to Introduce Themselves with Confidence
Melanie Shuster, Co-Host: 10:11
What’s an easy thing that we can do to start teaching our children to speak clearly and confidently? I think an easy one is how to tell people their name, how to introduce themselves.
Heidi Franz, Host: 10:22
That’s a great one. “Hello, my name is…” And that starts in preschool. To walk up to a person and even as a preschooler, just stick out their hand to shake that person’s hand. Practice shaking hands, not spaghetti arms, and not a wimpy, but not too tight.
Melanie Shuster, Co-Host: 10:39
Right. And also I would say some kids are just huggers, but a handshake is more socially acceptable than a hug. Even in preschoolers, it’s a good skill to teach. Like shake the hand. Then when you become friends with somebody, then you can hug them.
Safe Stranger Skills Every Child Needs to Know
Heidi Franz, Host: 10:53
We need to make sure that our kids know our names. Not just Mom or Dad, but what are our names? And how can they contact us in an emergency situation? You know, with smartphones and we just press the button, I don’t know my kids’ phone numbers. I will be honest. And on the ABCJesusLovesMe.com website, and we’ll link it in the show notes, there are songs that you can put your phone number to, for that child to memorize. And just at random times as you’re driving down the road say, “Hey, what’s mom’s phone number? What’s mom’s name for emergency situations?”
Melanie Shuster, Co-Host: 11:33
And ultimately those three things: the child being able to tell their full name, a parent’s full name, and how to ask for help and how to get a hold of that parent. Those are the key pieces of information that that child is going to need when they need to engage in a conversation with a safe stranger. A safe stranger is a police officer, a firefighter, a teacher, a librarian. Maybe it’s another mom at a park. You know, someone when they need help, they go, “Okay, that’s the person that I can go to.”
Heidi Franz, Host: 12:03
I always taught my kids, look for a mom with kids. Typically, that is going to be a safe situation. If they don’t see a police officer, if they don’t see a store employee with a name tag or a teacher or a librarian, look for a mom with kids. Because we want them to be aware of the fact that there is sin in this world. And there are people who choose sin over God. Because of that, we don’t wander off from the adult that they are with. We stay in safe situations. We have those conversations. I had the conversation with my daughter, who is at a very safe campus, that I really would prefer that you don’t run alone, that you always have somebody with you. And it was just a reminder to her. She knew that. It’s important for us to keep ourselves in safe situations, but also to train our children… If they are in a situation where they have concern, what do they do?
Melanie Shuster, Co-Host: 13:09
And again, this is something you can practice when you have a play date. Have your child, you know, go to the other mom and say, “This is my name. Did you know my mom’s name is this? And this is her phone number.” I mean, just keep the stakes low. Or if they go to a Mom’s Day Out, go practice with the teacher. I mean, you have so many opportunities to practice in a “safe space” and then begin to take those baby steps, like you said, at the library or at the restaurant. Or I’ll tell you, I don’t know a preschool that doesn’t go to the fire department, and get to visit. And so there’s an opportunity right there. Volunteer or just remind the teacher, “Hey, will you have, you know, Susan go up and say this?” It’s just… I know it’s one more thing to think about, but it’s an easy win .
Heidi Franz, Host: 13:51
And it’s an important one. Church is a great opportunity. If you have greeters, have your child go up and introduce themselves to the greeter. And that builds relationship and also other people love to have conversation with your kids. Okay, so we’ve talked about building courage in kids, starting young. And I’m gonna say it’s never too late to start this. Obviously, it is much easier the earlier you start because it becomes their norm. But it’s never too late. So now let’s talk to that second question about the negative peer pressure. So we built courage in them, but how does that courage flow into leadership?
Helping Kids Resist Peer Pressure and Become Leaders
Melanie Shuster, Co-Host: 14:31
One of the things that is such a beautiful expression of courage is when someone sees something they know is not right and is confident enough to speak up about it. All across schools now they have this motto, “See something, say something.” And it takes courage to do that, Heidi. It really does. I mean, even something that you and I as an adult would look at and go, “Yeah, you should speak up.” When you’re in the midst of all your peers, it can be really hard to make that choice. So a child who has been given this really long on-ramp of building the character quality of courage, I do think it makes it a little bit easier. The stigma, the fear of being, you know, looked at differently, they already have those skills built, those reps are in. They’ve built that muscle. And it is just a little bit easier to stand up and do the right thing.
Heidi Franz, Host: 15:28
Yeah. And this goes back to the last episode about fear in our parenting and releasing our children. When we have started releasing them at home, they are building that ability, that courage. They are seeing what is right and what is wrong and having the courage to stand up to do what is right, instead of just following like you’ve taught them at home to follow you.
Teaching Kids Respectful Disagreement
Melanie Shuster, Co-Host: 15:56
And this is hard, right? Because a lot of times our knee-jerk response to our kids is “Because I said so. Because mommy said so.” And that’s how we do things. And I’m not saying there’s not a time and a place for that, but I think we also need to allow for conversations. Like if a child doesn’t want to do something or eat something or go somewhere, “Okay, tell me why. I’m not saying that we’re still not gonna do it, but talk to me about it.” And that’s the groundwork for the ability then to express an opinion that is different than the crowd. Again, “I’m not saying that I’m gonna change my mind, but I’d like to hear what you have to say.”
Heidi Franz, Host: 16:37
I tell my kids all the time: if you don’t agree with something that I do, you are always welcome to come and talk to me about it with a polite tone. And support why you think this is wrong. Don’t just come tell me that you don’t like it. Tell me why you don’t like it.
Melanie Shuster, Co-Host: 16:54
Yeah, because confidence and courage aren’t boisterous and loud and just that clanging cymbal. I mean, it is respectful. I think about how, you know, Christ interacted with those that he patently disagreed with. You know, I mean, he had something to say. He wasn’t screaming, he wasn’t yelling. You know, and so just an opportunity to be an example of open dialogue and considering one another’s opinions. And we just did a podcast about what it looks like to have older kids and parenting out of fear when they’re older. And this is laying the groundwork for being able to have your child come to you and say, “Yeah, I hear ya. But I’m not gonna do that because I want to do X, Y, and Z.” And having that respectful conversation.
Heidi Franz, Host: 17:36
Which is their entire adult life. I was walking with a dear friend of mine, a godly woman, and she said something that just shocked me. And I was very surprised that she believed that. It was not a core doctrinal belief, but it was something that I believe completely differently. But I loved how in that conversation we both said, “Man, I cannot wait till the next time we get together so that we can sit down and talk about this.” Not argue about it, but be able to talk about it respectfully because I want to hear where she’s coming from. I want to hear her heart, what led her to this decision. And she also wants to hear mine. And that’s what it is about. And that’s a situation with a fellow believer. What about with somebody who believes something that is not doctrine, who goes against what God has taught at the core? I want my kids to be able to sit down with that person and have a conversation with them in peace and in love to find out why that person believes that way. What led them to this belief, and then be able to share their story about let me tell you what God did.
Melanie Shuster, Co-Host: 18:55
I want to backtrack for just a minute because our listeners know we have older kids now.
Melanie Shuster, Co-Host: 19:00
The conversations that I’ve had with my daughter about protecting herself. We’ve also gone a little bit deeper and darker and had to talk about, you know, situations where men are going to behave in ways that are not loving, not respectful. You have every right to say “no” and to walk away and all of the things that encompass that. But I think to your point earlier, even just teaching a child that it’s okay to say “No, thank you” or “No,” or “I don’t want to do that,” or “That makes me feel uncomfortable.” It starts when they’re little. I mean, so it is very hard when you are sitting in front of your three-year-old to imagine a world in which they’re gonna have to say “No” in a much more forceful way. But as with all the things we talk about, now’s the time.
Raising Kids Who Speak Up, Set Boundaries, and Stand for Truth
Heidi Franz, Host: 19:48
As you’re talking, Melanie, the thing that’s coming to my mind is in the ABC Jesus Loves Me Curriculum, I include lots of opportunities for you to read a book with a child and then talk about what happened at the beginning, the middle, and end. Now, while that is great for comprehension, what it also trains the child is to pick out what’s important. And then secondly, it trains the child how to share what happened in a situation, so that they can give you those main core details of a situation that happened. So even in reading a book, you are teaching a child how to speak for themselves and to have courage. Do you see how that works?
Heidi Franz, Host: 20:40
So I want to close with this thought. Leadership does not suddenly appear in the teenage years. Courage is not something that suddenly happens. Now, I will say, there are kids that are born courageous, but we are talking about courage with love. We are talking about courage with boundaries, and that doesn’t just happen. And so as you’re raising your kids, we want to encourage you that each of these small moments help a child grow a little braver. And little by little, we’re not just raising polite kids, but our goal is to raise future leaders who have the courage to do what is right, not for their glory, but for God’s.
Announcer: 21:37
We want to thank you for listening to the Parenting to Impress podcast. Be sure to visit ABCJesusLovesMe.com and check out the show notes for more information on topics shared in this episode. Please subscribe and share with your friends.
Read the corresponding blog post: Raising Courageous Kids